Choosing a Training Bit for a Reining Horse
I’m back. A little stuffy, but the worst of that plague-like cold is over. Tonight when I got to the barn, Jim (Leo’s owner) had Leo saddled up for me (pretty nice). By the time I hoisted myself up into the saddle, it was 30 degrees and pitch dark out. Leo is getting more comfortable in the dark. Thank goodness for that outdoor arena lighting next door though!
I had a great ride. Leo was really trying. We worked on flexion for awhile and then I “let” him canter around. I think I sometimes confuse his being “chargey” with his apparently sincere desire to run. People say, “he’s a lot of horse.” I’m a believer. I know how powerful he, how agile he is, and that he’s hurt a few people who scared and possibly hurt him. So I have a healthy respect for what he can do. However, this “healthy respect” sometimes turns into fear. I think that might be causing me to choose the wrong bit for him.
I watch the Les Vogt training DVDs, and I see that he is using a snaffle on his horses. I know people use snaffles on young horse and horses in training. Leo is 7 years old though. However, he doesn’t have a hard mouth; I think he’s actually pretty sensitive.
Early on, when I was still getting to know him, I tried out a snaffle, and it scared me. When I asked him to yield to the bit at a canter, he would yield alright, but he wouldn’t slow down. What he did was pin his nose to his chest and keep on truckin’. That scared me, so I put him in a bit that he’s been very good with.
The bit I’m using is a Billy Allen straight mouthpiece with about five inch shanks. I like the Billy Allen mouthpieces (looks like this) because swivel action in the mouthpiece allows the shanks to move independently. I like that it’s flat because it has soft but respectable stopping power, and it would take a whole lot for me to accidentally hurt him like a high-port bit could. However, I’ve recently read that a flat mouthpiece cause contant pressure on a horse’s tongue and cause discomfort. So, I’m rethinking the bit I have.
I don’t know if I have to use a snaffle for training or not. What if I should use one though and by not using one I’m hindering his training? But what makes a snaffle better then the bit I’m using I wonder. Can you go back down in bit severity, once you’ve gone up? If I need more stopping power than a regular snaffle, that would put me at a thinner snaffle or even a twist-wire. That seems like it will only give him a harder mouth.
I also wonder —if snaffles are so much better for schooling—why are horses ever changed to shank bits. Are shank bits just for show? I think I might try a medium severity d-ring snaffle and see if it makes a difference.
First look at what a snaffle does compared to a shank bit.
A snaffle is 1:1, you feel everything basically just as it is. When you cue with a snaffle it does one thing-sends that signal to the horses mouth, usually on one side. Also maybe to a small degree the snaffle rig relieves pressure at the poll through the bridle. The indirect ring will apply pressure to the other side of the mouth to a certain degree. If you use a curb strap, which I do, it really does nothing except stabilize the bit somewhat.
A shanked bit adds leverage. Depending on design, whatever you do is multiplied to a certain extent. A curb bit also does three things-pressure at the mouth, at the chin through the curb strap and at the poll through the bridle. A lot of things going on for the horse.
I love snaffle bits. The feeling of direct contact let’s me feel exactly what the horse wants. I tolerate curb bits most times. But a curb bit is also a very good communicator to a well trained horse. The leverage and design give very precise and quick signals.
I have my own snaffle rig made up with slobber straps in a way I can use regular leather reins that I prefer. I like how the slobber straps add a little weight and feeling. They seem to allow me to do most of my work with a more slack rein and still give good signals.
My mare “Brandy” responds very well to a training fork. She prefers the signals coming a little lower than I can achieve without it. It’s a good tool but has to be adjusted and used with trial and error. It can even be dangerous in situations if used wrong because it can make a horse feel trapped.
I purchased a German Martingale but haen’t worked with it yet. My thoughts is “Dixie” may respond well to it.
I suggest you check out Larry Trocha’s site - www.horsetrainingvideos.com. He has a DVD on training aids which if I recall is free. I also use his other videos and like his style of teaching.
I always go weaker rather than stronger when I think I have a bit problem. And you have to look beyond the mouthpiece. Look at the leverage-the difference in distance from mouthpiece to rein compared to mouthpiece to bridle. Curb strap design and adjustment. Bridle design and adjustment.
Can you go back down? Yes I think so. I consider horse training as “up and down”. Increase the pressure until the proper response is achieved then work back down until that response is gotten at the lightest cue possible. Listen to the horse - he’s trying to teach you things as much as you’re trying to teach him. “Teach with firmness, strive towards softness”.
I’d like to see you try a snaffle with Leo. But you’ll have to do the groundwork first. Tack him up and just work the reins from ground like you would from the saddle. Like always, cue as light as you can, as firm as you have to. Review Les Vogt’s program-he gives some great methods. Also, I love tying em around like he does. I’ve always tied em around with just one rein but his method makes a whole lot more sense once the basics are done.
One thing I picked up from Larry Trocha is to put a metal ring on the curb strap of a snaffle rig. You can do some lunging exercises through the snaffle without having to worry about switching sides whenever the horse changes direction.
The Billy Allen bit is a very good one…have one myself. But our Paint mare “Dixie” hates it. She will run through it, jig around and just become unbroke. Put her in an Argentine snaffle and she’s back to her old self. She does fine in a regular snaffle but benefits from a curb bit. “Jake” does his best work in a correction bit. “Arco” is lovely in a modified spade bit although she also rides in a sidepull for just trail rides and such. “Bandit and “Ginger” are learning in regular smooth snaffles.
In a moment of stupidity I put a Argentine snaffle on “Parker”, our TWH. It was a tense few minute ride. Thought we were going to test our rodeo skills. Put him in a regular snaffle and we rode with no problems.
We used to start colts in a hackamore years ago. But I’ve come to believe it is one of the hardest things to master. It is a wonderful tool in the right hands but I feel I do a horse injustice by using it with my skill level. Lately I’ve been trying a sidepull rig and feel more comfortable using it when conditions call for it.
My favorite bit really is a “Stacy Westfall” bit-bridleless (or what I like to call “naked head”). Bits are kinda like women - I’ll never figure em out but I’ll spend the rest of my life tryin to.
Loping in 30 degree weather in the dark huh? I’m not too sure we got a cure for you MJ.
11 Dec 2007 at 9:39 am
Wow, thanks Al! Ok, I’m going to go pick up a snaffle at lunch today. I think I’ll try a medium severity and if that doesn’t work, maybe a fat twistwire? Also, what is your position on an loose ring vs and egg butt vs a Dee ring? I think I’m going to go with the Dee ring because I read that it helps with lateral guiding and it won’t spin like a loose ring and pinch him.
11 Dec 2007 at 11:29 am
ok, I got the bit. It’s a medium-severity mouthpiece Dee ring snaffle. Wish me luck.
11 Dec 2007 at 1:21 pm
Good choice MJ. I prefer a D-Ring myself. Do be aware of pinching no matter what bit you use. Check his lips on the corners and such.
Go slow, be safe. Review your Les Vogt materials, there is good info there. Do some research on the web or wherever, there’s folks out there light years smarter than me. Most of all use your head. I’m confident you can read your horse and his reactions. Ride him like it’s a colt’s first ride. Feel his tensions, watch his responses.
I don’t believe in “hard mouth”. What’s that mean? Do they develop a callous? I believe in “hard riders”. I see it all the time and is why I never really wanted to be a professional trainer. It’s not the horses-it’s the people. I’ve seen horses change in minutes when riders switched. I’ve ridden “problem” horses that I couldn’t get to show me the “problem” they have.
You don’t need me to wish you luck MJ. Luck ain’t nothing but opportunity mixed with hard work. Leo is your opportunity. And anybody lopin horses in the dark in the winter got the other magic ingredient figured out already.
11 Dec 2007 at 5:04 pm
haha! I hope I have the magic ingredient! Actually, I don’t get to ride tonight. The weather reports says rain or snow by the time I would have arrived. BUMMER! I think we’re going to trailer him to a covered arena this weekend though, so at least I’ll get one more ride in this week.
Maybe you’re right about “hard riders.” Leo really hasn’t shown me any real anger yet. He’s a pretty relaxed little fella these days–except for that first day back when he was so ornery. Maybe I’m letting his reputation scare me more than I should.
Hey, I was talking to the lady who runs the boarding facility where I ride. She says that Leo pinning his nose to his chest is him “getting behind the bit,” and that it’s caused from consistent pressure. So, I have to be sure to remember: pressure, release, pressure, release and maybe he’ll stop doing that.
11 Dec 2007 at 6:19 pm
Well at this stage maybe too much is better than not enough. But yes they can use that trick to get away from the bit. Don’t forget to use your legs to drive him into the bit.
At least he’s learning which direction to go to release the pressure. I’d rather have that for now then him pull against it.
Horses get reputations from a lot of different folks. Gotta get that outta your mind and judge for yourself what you got to work with.
11 Dec 2007 at 7:49 pm
I’m glad you got the snaffle. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve ridden in a curb, everything else is in the snaffle, mostly because the last 2 years I’ve been only working on starting my 2 young ones. The handful of times I used a curb was on my 10 yo mare I sold this summer & I only used it as an experiment to see how well she neck reined. I use a smooth eggbutt to start them out & then onto a twisted wire D. If you find Leo evading the snaffle like before at the canter, bend him around & do a one-rein stop to stop him. Now how to teach him to not do that anymore, I don’t know, I’ve never had a horse that did that. Don’t ever feel bad about going a “step down” in bits & also you can use a snaffle on any age horse. I guess I’ve always heard curbs are used as a convenience thing, to ride one handed, to use your free hand for doing other things like opening the gate, for roping, & whatever else, as well as they are required for showing.
I have a question for Al, what bit do you prefer as a good transition bit in between the snaffle & curb? My 4 yo goes pretty soft now in the snaffle, so I think its time for her to move up. I’m thinking something like this? http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?PGGUID=2e87c046-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5
12 Dec 2007 at 1:38 pm
Amanda,
My favorite going from snaffle to curb is an Argentine snaffle, basically a short shank snaffle bit. I also use a Tom Thumb bit. I feel these allow the horse the familiarity of the snaffle bit while letting them learn about curb strap and bridle pressures. I try to find the shortest shanks possible..I think the one I use has 4 or 4 1/2″ shanks. Actually shank length has more to do with the rider than the horse….longer shanks magnify the movement of the reins. If you can concentrate on keeping rein movemenets very slight you can go to a longer shank. Shorter shanks allow a bit more “sloppiness”.
A well respected trainer in our area really likes to use a correction bit and does get good results trasitioning with it. One of horses, “Jake”, came from there and he does go very well in his correction bit. I just can’t say I have much experience with them.
I think the Billy Allen bit is also a good choice but I prefer to save it to use between a short shank snaffle and a solid curb such as a grazing bit. Again I think it has enough familiar aspects for the horse while introducing the basics of a solid bit.
I looked at the link you have and think that would be a good bit to start with. It’s hard to tell but maybe I would prefer a smooth mouthpiece rather than the wrapped copper. Although I like copper in a bit I would have to actually have to see what they achieve with wrapping it. I like to use a leather strap curb strap rather than a chain type, at first anyway. Just make sure it is adjustable as curb strap adjustments are critical.
I know Les Vogt has a line of bits. I would try and get any information you could about them. To be honest I’m not real picky with my snaffle bits compared to a curb bit.
Some Links to Look at
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?PGGUID=defd5d51-f04c-400c-81ee-f5c526e48314
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?PGGUID=30e0757b-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5
http://lesvogt.com/shopping/bits/1133AG-19.html
Hope that helps some
12 Dec 2007 at 10:21 pm
Thanks Al, it does help. I’ve heard bad things about the Tom Thumb, so don’t think I’ll use that, but actually that D&L Reiner I was looking at too, but thought the cheeks may be a little long to start out in, it might be good as a 2nd step up because of the mouthpiece. It is a broken mouthpiece, but won’t “drop” like the regular broken ones, so it’ll get them use to having more of a solid mouthpiece. I think the wrapped mouthpiece in the link I gave just gives a little more bite like a twisted wire does & she’s familiar with that so this bit should be no big deal. I also currently use a leather curb strap with my snaffle, so I will just use that for the new bit.
13 Dec 2007 at 11:01 am
If your comfortable with the wrapped mouthpiece then that is a good looking transition bit. The D&L Reiner is a Billy Allen style bit like MJ uses (Right MJ?). The design does add more pressure to the tongue. Some horse will work well with that, others won’t. Depends on their conformation of their mouth and tongue as well as what they prefer. Don’t be afraid to experiment. Only your horse can tell you the magic combination. Adjust the bridle, adjust the curb strap. Try different rein positions. If he still says nope that it ain’t, find an empty hook on the bridle rack and hang that one up and try another.
The D&L Reiner has provisions to be used as a 2-rein. One set at the mouthpiece like regular snaffle, the other at the shanks. I ain’t got the skills to handle 2 reins (barely got one set figured out) so I haven’t tried it but it is an option.
Long cheeks equal short hands. My thoughts on using short shanks on bits for young horses is it lets my mind wander a little to concentrate on training them. If I move my hands a little too much a short shank is more forgiving. The benefit of long shanks isn’t leverage but quickness - a very slight move of the rein translates a signal to the horse.
Watch a skilled horseman on a well trained horse using a spade bit. You have to really concentrate to see any movement of the rein yet the horse performs with quickness and agility.
13 Dec 2007 at 2:22 pm
Yep, Leo likes the Billy Allen bit. Al, you’re now officially our resident bit expert.
All in favor, say “aye.”
Aye!!!
13 Dec 2007 at 4:01 pm