Switching from a Shank Bit to a Snaffle: Oooooh the Agony
Al, I don’t think I deserve that pat on the back now. And Amanda, I’m not longer feeling snafflerific. What seemed so great yesterday, fell apart today. I’m trying to remind myself that there were a lot of negative factors: Leo loaths puddles and the arena was full of them; Leo wanted to go to his “magnet corner” since we were next door to home; and he had a new bit in for only the second day.
BUT, Les makes everything look so easy! I did a lot of reading in his workbook last night and got frustrated with myself because it’s all right there and I don’t remember it all when I’m riding. For instance, I haven’t been using hands AND legs consistently when working on vertical flexion. I get absorbed in just ONE element and forget all of the other stuff I should be doing. So, tonight I was really concentrating on the hands and legs and vertical flexion. I thought since Sunday went so great, I’d really be able to focus on vertical flexion and collection. Here’s what happened.
He was not yielding. He was ok when we were walking away, but if we were headed toward his magnet corner of the arena he would ignore my requests until I was almost pulling on him to stop. I think he did so well yesterday because he was in a new place and wasn’t focused on going home. With the shank bit, he’s soooo good at doing a counter arc. But he was either confused or was just flat out refusing to do it today. Also he started tossing his head again. He doesn’t toss his head in the Billy Allen bit, but he seems to do it in a snaffle. Is it possible that he just isn’t comfortable in a snaffle? Or maybe he was just irritated and confused.
I’m going to call the barn owner tomorrow and see if she’ll help me. She’s an incredible English riding instructor. I suppose, if you’re going to talk about snaffles, who better to go to than an English riding instructor? She knows a lot about horses, so I’m hoping she’ll take a peek at him.
Something really great did happen today though. Guess what…he did almost a half circle of turn around the forehand. 
I almost jumped off and danced a jig. He’s getting it!
Here are some thoughts - first have you felt his teeth? If he as any rough edges that is going to get his head tossing. Also it might mean that you’re holding on to him to tight, rather than getting in and out of his mouth, so you’re not giving him anything to pull against.
I know that a port seems severe to many people, but it has be pretty high to hit him hard on his palate and honestly I’m not sure that one to one pressure on a horse’s palate is more painful than the 3 to one pressure that the curb strap/chain applies to his chin.
And the problem is that the flat mouthpiece gives them no clue that the curb strap is about to hit them. At least with the curb bit, the rotation of the mouthpiece warns them that the curb is coming if they don’t respond. With no port in the mouthpiece, you’re taking them by surprise. To me it seems like I see more head tossers in Billy Martins and tom thumbs, than in curb bits. While they seem mild, in actuality they are not,if they are used with anything but the mildest pressure.
18 Dec 2007 at 11:10 pm
Ooooh I’m soooo glad to hear from you!
It’s so great that you’re commenting on the Billy Martins and Tom Thumbs. I’ve been doing a lot of bit research this month and found out that flat ports can cause pain on a lot of horses because on the constant-pressure, no-relief affect on the tongue. I also found out that Tom Thumbs can be a lot more severe than their reputation.
Important Question: Do you think it’s possible to go through Cowhorse U on something other than a snaffle? Like maybe a slightly curved mouthpiece shank bit? I’m really dying to know this. Or possibly something like this? Myler-Ported Mullen-Barrell Egg-butt Bit (thats a mouthful…no pun intended)
Really I’ve only ever seen him toss his head in a snaffle-type mouthpiece (broken mouthpiece). I asked around and found out that it’s possible that he has a shallow pallet and the constant thunk of the bit on the roof of his mouth is uncomfortable.
I haven’t felt his teeth because I’m a big fat chicken and I’m afraid I’ll lose a finger. Jim did when I first started Cowhorse U, but I’m not sure if we really did it right (I supervised and he was afraid of losing a finger too). I spoke with him (Leo’s owner) and we’ll be making an appointment to have his teeth checked very soon. I just have to find a good horsie dentist in the area. Maybe the dentist will also let me know if he has a shallow pallet.
I feel like it’s the nutcracker action of the snaffle that really irritates him though. He doesn’t ever resist lateral flexion like Les says a horse with rough teeth might. So I wonder if it’s just that Leo hates Snaffles. I guess we’ll find out as soon as we find a good dentist.
Thank you Linda.
18 Dec 2007 at 11:54 pm
This type of bit might work. It has a port and no shank. And it can have a curb strap. California Pleasure Kimberwicke
19 Dec 2007 at 12:12 am
Relax a bit MJ. You’ve been using the snaffle only a few days and learning some things.
To hear some folks talk about a Tom Thimb bit you’d think it was made outta barbed wire. I’ve used them for years with good results. But if you do have any doubts it’s not gonna work…like a mind thing. Gotta have confidence in your gear.
I suppose if you jerked on one enough you could get a get a snaffle to smack em in the roof of the mouth or be a nutcracker. But it’d take an awful lot.
First, a snaffle bit is a “two-handed bit”. That don’t mean just the reins in two hands but you use both hands independently. If you pull back with both hands at the same time that’s how you get the nutcracker effect people talk about. But if you “seesaw” the bit back and forth you get a much better response and it is very mild. I can’t think of anytime both hands should put pressure on at the exact same time.
I think maybe one thing that has changed for Leo going to a snaffle is the lessening of tongue pressure compared to the Billy Allen. Not a bad thing, just a new thing. He’s gonna have a little learning curve…so will you. No big deal.
I really want to see you give the snaffle a chance. I think you’ll be able to refine some of your movements with it once things fall in place. It’s ability to send signals more distinct to each side can be a big help. You’ll also have a more direct link to send cues.
Take a look at tyin em around like in the Cowhorse U program. It really works good for me. I don’t do it exactly as shown but similar and I agree it does no good if the horse isn’t moving. When done right it establishes definite limits that can’t be done with your hands (at least not mine). Start out slow and work em up until you get a fair amount of flexion. This is one of the few groundwork exercises I really like doing and believe in.
Watch how Les Vogt works the snaffle. You don’t pull, you bump. Maybe vibrate is a better word to start with then bump as needed. You sort of tap the reins with your fingers. You work to where slight moves of a slack rein are enough to get a response. You’ll be surprised at how quickly they can learn that. And don’t forget-one rein at a time.
And don’t get too wrapped up in the intricacies of bit designs. Concentrate on your riding and cues. NEVER NEVER forget your legs. Les Vogt says they’re 50% of the deal…I say 60%. And it’s not just legs and hands, subtle weight shifts send cues. Remember that a horse swishes his tail at a fly because he can feel that fly land on him.
The big thing here is don’t lose confidence. Sometimes seems like things go backwards. But that’s ok too. Sometimes gotta know what the wrong thing is before you can figure out the right thing. You’ve got the dedication. You’re learning the skills very quickly. Give things a little time, it’ll all come together.
19 Dec 2007 at 1:20 am
I agree with Al, keep trying the snaffle. I’d try it for a good 7 rides or so, if he’s still head tossing, then try something else. Big ditto to using your hands separately. My first Clinton clinic we were not allowed to “put two hands on the reins” well really we did, but what he meant was using both hands at the same time. He’d make us have a big loop rein hold one hand in the middle of the rein & keep it down in front of the saddle horn & when we wanted to stop, bend down & pull the horses head around to your toe with your other hand (one-rein stop).
19 Dec 2007 at 7:50 am
I think it really might be his teeth. The snaffle would probably cause more pressure on his mouth and teeth, so it makes sense that if it were his teeth, he’d act out most in a snaffle.
Plan B = get teeth checked before dismissing the snaffle, which should have been Plan A.
I did some hunting last night and think I found a good equine dentist.
You guys have such faith in the snaffle, so I really do want to give it a try. I’m going to make sure I’m not hurting him first though.
Going to call dentist now…
19 Dec 2007 at 10:33 am
Merry Christmas!!!
Where you all been?
25 Dec 2007 at 5:44 am
We’ve been opening up presents! I got some super cool Emerald Green Professional’s Choice Medicine Boots for the horse! I really wanted those!
Merry Christmas to you! Did you get lots of goodies?
-MJ
25 Dec 2007 at 8:24 pm
Yep XMas was pretty good. Actually got my presents from wife early. She got them at the NFR. New cowhair belt, 2007 NFR buckle, 2007 NFR t-shirt, new bolo tie, real fancy western shirt, Stetson cologne/aftershave.
Think maybe she’s tryin to make me presentable enough to take to town???
27 Dec 2007 at 12:59 am
Glad you guys had a good Christmas, I did as well! My husband got me this headstall http://www.weaverleather.com/tack/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=172&products_id=15224
the darker leather one. Guess I wasn’t too clear that I wanted the matching reins as well, oh well my birthday is in April, maybe I’ll ask for them early! He also got me a remote start for my car, which I like, would have much rather used the money for horse stuff…but I didn’t tell him that, of course!
27 Dec 2007 at 7:33 am
Nice headstall! I like the stars. Ya, don’t tell him that; I’m sure he put a lot of though into the remote start. Is it cool? Just be sure to cut out a lot of photos of the reins and leave them around the house before your birthday. OR, make a “wish list” on the fridge and pin the photo there.
Al…I think she might be. Maybe she’s getting you ready for the New Years party. Is the shirt one of those retro ones?
I got jealous that the horse got boots and I didn’t, so I got myself a Christmas present and ordered boots for me! I ordered some Rod Patrick boots http://western-wear-store.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_46&products_id=620 What do you think? A friend of mine had a pair and I thought they were made really nice. I had to get clearance from the fashion police before I ordered them and was told they were acceptable.
One of my friends (fashion police) was giving me a lot of grief for wearing English riding boots…on a Quarter horse….in a western saddle.
27 Dec 2007 at 11:49 am
Ha, I bought that same bridle for my wife sometime ago. I really like Weaver tack and that sure is a pretty one. Try and be good until your birthday cause the reins are pretty nice too.
MJ, english boots??????????!!!!!! Poor Leo, probably thought you were tryin to make him a dressage horse or sumthin. He oughta be a whole lots better now that you got some real boots. And those sure are nice. Probably won’t be getting much training done…both of ya in new boots be too busy struttin around looking pretty.
Seriously though, a girl that was riding for my in-laws had a horse flip over on her and shattered her ankle last year. The doctor said that if she had been wearing western boots it probably wouldn’t have been as bad since they allow movement of your legs. The english boots fit too tight up top. Everybody knows them english riders won’t get on a horse until a cowboy got em good and broke anyways.
29 Dec 2007 at 6:37 pm